Above the Post Update (Akalaupdate, I guess): This article has generated a lot of buzz, but there’s been no small amount of misinformation tossed about in regard to it, this site, EA, and even Ultima 4 in all the excitement. I’ve attempted to offer some corrections and clarifications in this article.
Escape from Mount Update: I’ve gone through and made some corrections. The reason for this will be explained in a forthcoming article.
Observant Dragons and Dragonettes may have noticed that there has been some…disruption in Ultima 4-related projects of late. For example, both the Master System 8 and Phi Psi Software Flash-based remakes of the game have been taken down. Additionally, both Aiera and xu4 have removed their direct download links for the PC version of the game, and Dino has removed his comprehensive listing of other sites that hosted the same download.
Basically, after about fourteen years (since approximately 1997), Electronic Arts is finally cracking down and issuing DMCA notifications to most — not all! — sites that are hosting the PC version of Ultima 4 for download. This move is not being taken well by many, and people are wondering both why EA is wasting time enforcing copyright on an old game like this, and asking “hey, wasn’t it released as freeware?”
The Ultima 4 Title Screen
Where It All Began.
Back in the late 1990s, Origin arranged for the PC version of Ultima 4 — the full game — to be released for free on a CD distributed with a particular copy of PC Games/Computer Gaming World.
Late in 1997, Lady Whisper Dragon (who maintains the Worlds of Origin website along with her husband) evidently secured permission from Origin Systems to distribute the version of the game from that CD on her website. The announcement of this was made in a Usenet discussion thread.
Later on in that same thread, a person known as Boomer — AKA Mike McCoy, who at the time was Origin’s “online community manager” — dropped in to clarify, based on a question posed by Fortran Dragon, that the version of the game which was released to Lady Whisper for free download was in fact the PC version of the game, the same binary that had shipped on the PC Games/CGW CD. (Plus the usual bits about it not being for commercial distribution.)
Prior to Lady Whisper posting a version of the game for download, a couple of other Ultima Dragon-run sites were able to secure similar permission to distribute the CD verison of the game. Of these, only Contrapuntal Dragon’s site still exists. Fortran’s Hidalgo Trading Company was the other, but it is no longer online. Lady Whisper was probably the third or fourth person to host a download.
However (and this is an update and correction), I have since determined that Lady Whisper is not hosting the correct version of Ultima 4 for download. Contrapuntal Dragon’s version is the version from the PC Games/CGW CD, which is the version that Origin released. Lady Whisper, however, has posted the version of Ultima 4 that shipped on the Ultima Collection CD for download. The differences between these versions are slight, but a file size comparison tells the tale.
As such: I’m removing links to Lady Whisper’s download from the site here, and I would encourage everyone else to do the same.
Where It Really Began, However.
Just prior to these Dragons getting permission to distribute the game, however, was something that Contrapuntal Dragon refers to as the Kickass Debacle. Basically, a gaming site billing itself as Kickass Games (I have no idea if they are related to the present site with that name) was offering Ultima 4 (the version from PC Games/CGW) for download.
Which struck Contrapuntal Dragon as an odd thing since he was aware that various Ultima Dragons had asked Origin for permission to distribute the CD version of the game, and had been refused.
The confrontation with Kickass Games turned ugly and petty, but at the outcome of it Contrapuntal and other UDIC members were informed that they could offer the CD version for download on their websites. After confirming this with Boomer at Origin, Contrapuntal happily set up a download page for the game, and so did a couple of other Dragons (sadly, these other sites no longer appear to be online).
So That Means It’s Free, Right?
Well, yes…and also no. As Contrapuntal Dragon explains at his Ultima 4 download page, the release of the PC Games/CGW version of the game for download was mostly a gesture of goodwill on Origin’s part. And yes, at certain select sites, the game is indeed available for download for free.
So it’s not, as Jazzcat said in this thread at Horizons Tavern, the case that EA “won’t allow anyone to enjoy this classic RPG.” In plain point of fact, they will. But equally, it’s also not the case that “Ultima 4 was released to the public domain in 2001.” That is, sadly, a happy little fiction that the Ultima fandom has invented for itself.
And as Contrapuntal makes clear, EA still holds the copyright to the game, and has ever since the Origin acquisition. The game itself was released in a controlled fashion; the copyright holding was not abandoned at that time.
You Keep Using This Word. I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means.
Ultima 4 is available for free in a few select places online; that’s been established. Does that mean it’s “freeware”?
I suppose it depends what you mean by “freeware”, because the meaning of that word has always been a bit fluid, and in fact has shifted a few times over the years. The game is available for free from certain Ultima Dragons but, as Contrapuntal Dragon and Lady Whisper both make clear, that fact does not entitle others to download the game and redistribute it on other websites without the express permission of Origin Systems (or, now, Electronic Arts).
Ultima 4 hasn’t been released in the same way that the id Tech 2 engine has, or in the same way that Bungie released the Marathon games; it’s not GPL or some other flavour of open distribution. Electronic Arts still retains the copyright to the game, and it is still possible to commit piracy in regard to Ultima 4.
So What Does That Mean For The Various Projects/Remakes?
Well…that’s the thing, isn’t it?
Historically, Electronic Arts has taken a pretty relaxed view of the Ultima remake community, and I would expect that they will continue to do so in the future. However, it is the case that the two Flash-based remakes of Ultima 4 have received DMCA (copyright violation) notices. I’ve spoken with a couple of people “on the inside” about this, and the takeaway I got from that was actually about what I expected to hear.
Basically, a straight-up remake like the two Neverwinter Nights-based remakes of Ultima 4 are probably safe; I don’t think Electronic Arts has any interest in going after mods like that, and in fact they really didn’t come up in discussion at all.
A project like xu4 is also (probably) safe, since it still requires a copy of the original game to run. They’ll probably have to cease distributing copies of the game with their non-Windows builds, and will of course not be able to offer the PC version of Ultima 4 for direct download. But really, xu4 can be thought of as a glorified “make it run under [insert OS here]” patch for the game. From a legal perspective, that should be okay.
The two Flash-based versions of the game are probably toast, however, though I’m given to believe that Electronic Arts is willing to hear an argument for why they should be left available.
What about Classic Ultima Online, some of you are wondering? That one is a tough call. From what I gather, BioWare Mythic is lobbying pretty hard to keep that project available, and I have heard that they’re pretty interested in talking with its developer. It might survive, or it might not; I think that will depend on a few factors that have not yet been fully resolved.
Why Now?
This is probably the big question most of you are asking. After all, it’s been about fourteen years since Origin okayed certain Dragons to host the PC version of the game for free download. It has seen a lot of proliferation since then; even Aiera hosted a copy for download for a brief period.
So why, now, after all this time, is EA finally taking actions to protect its copyright?
I suspect that I can answer in three words: Mythic’s secret project.
There have been a lot of rumours circulating around — including a few hints dropped by people at Mythic proper — suggesting that their secret project is very likely Ultima-related, and indeed that it is related to Ultima 4 in some way. And if that’s the case, it actually makes a lot of sense that EA would put some effort into making sure that the Ultima 4 property and copyright isn’t being violated online.
So How Do We All Proceed?
For the moment, anyone wishing to post a download link to Ultima 4 can do one of two things: link to Aiera’s entry for the game, which has links to both of the known legitimate downloads of Ultima 4. Alternatively, link to either of the downloads themselves, links to Contrapuntal Dragon’s download page or the file he hosts, a link to which which can be found earlier in this article or at Aiera’s Ultima 4 entry.
Second, let’s all just take this as a reminder that while the remake community has enjoyed the enormous benefit of EA’s relative lack of interest in its various efforts (as opposed to how, say, Ubisoft treats fan mods and suchlike), there are obvious legal limits to that.
To be fair, I’ve heard from a couple sources that EA really don’t want to be complete tyrants about this, which is why only two projects — the Flash-based ones — have been taken down. xu4 received a notice to remove their hosted download of Ultima 4; Aiera received no such notice directly, but I took the proactive step of removing the link to my local copy of the file anyhow, in favour of links to known, safe download sites.
They’re not trying to step on more toes than necessary, but neither are they going to let the more obvious copyright violations slide. Which, really, is fair; it’s their copyright, their IP, to defend after all.
I realize that some people will feel offended and/or upset by this turn of events. Certainly, how we, the fan and remake community, approach the idea of Ultima 4′s availability as “freeware” will have to shift, as will our thinking in regard to the use and distribution of that property. But really, this isn’t some new and draconian shift in EA policy, so I would ask — almost beg, really — everyone not to make it out to be anything of the sort.
For the most part, and for most of us, it’s still “business as usual”; please don’t take this as an indication that you should all stop work on whatever projects you are involved in, pack up shop, pull your downloads offline, and get back to your real life. This is not the first wave in a comprehensive push by Electronic Arts to snuff out the remake community.
At the same time, it’s never a bad idea to make sure that you’re not violating copyright in any actionable way.
Questions, comments, and concerns can be left in the comments form; stuff you’d rather keep private can be submitted via the contact form (though I reserve the right to post a public reply — stripped of identifying personal details, of course — to particularly good questions).
Update: This story has been Slashdotted! Welcome, Slashdot readers!
Revenge of the Update: Welcome to all you Clippy.be, Rock, Paper, Shotgun, Blue’s News, RPGWatch, RPG Codex, Broken Toys, GameStar, Big Download, and Good Old Games readers! And thanks for all the link love, people!
Updateodus: Welcome, also, to you Game Politics readers, and thanks for the link! It’s nice to know I’m your favourite Ultima site.
There is one thing in the Game Politics article that needs correction, though:
One of my all-time favorite Ultima sites, Ultima Aiera, also removed links to many Ultima IV-related projects.
This is simply not true. What has been done, however, is that I have removed my copy of the actual Ultima 4 binary from the Ultima 4 entry on the site; that entry now points to the two hosted downloads of the game that I am reasonably certain possess the legal right to offer it. I have also moved the two project entries for the Flash-based versions of the game to the Cemetery.
In other words: the only thing I removed was a link to my hosted copy of Ultima 4. There have been a few rearrangements outside of that, but no other removals.
Quest of the Update: Welcome also to you VG24/7 readers.
Another correction, though. The VG24/7 article states that:
EA has issue[d] a cease and desist order to fan site Ultima Aiera, informing the site and others hosting Ultima IV, as well as Flash-based remakes, to pull any files pertaining to it.
It is true that C&D notices were sent to several sites. Aiera, however, was not one of these; I voluntarily removed the link to my hosted download (which was really just a copy of Contrapuntal Dragon’s download anyhow).
Update of Destiny: Welcome, also, to readers of Gracz.info and MeriStation. Man, this story is making waves!
The False Update: And welcome, as well, to any GryViews readers! Thanks for the link!
The Stygian Update: PC Gamer mentions the site by name (cool!) but doesn’t link (sad!). Still, welcome to anyone finding Aiera from that article!
Savage Update: German gaming site PS3 Inside sends in a link, in the midst of a news round-up.
Martian Update: Rampant Games comments on the story; welcome, RG readers, and thanks for the link guys!
The Black Update: Also, welcome GamerOwnage readers! Another link, and more thanks from me!
Labyrinth of Updates: This is getting out of control: this article has its own bit.ly URL: bit.ly/u4wetblanket!
Update Isle: Welcome, readers from Tweakers.net and NOWGamer! Thanks for even more link love!
Pagupdate: This is officially off the charts; this article has now been linked from Gamefront, GameBanshee, and Gama-freaking-sutra. Eurogamer also sends some link love, as does GreyViper. Thanks, y’all!
Updatecion: And welcome, GameSource readers! Thanks for the link, my Italian friends!
Update Online: And now The Escapist has picked up the story. Thanks for the link, fellas! Love your animations.
The Update Age: And how’s this for interesting? Look who has been by the site today:
Electronic Arts...kind of expected
Sega of America?
LU...CAS...FILM?!?!?
This is just what I’ve noticed in StatCounter so far; I’m sure there’s been even more. But I just use StatCounter’s free service, which limits log size to 500 entries. Which is really not that much on a day when the site is seeing four to six times its daily traffic.
Updateissance: Italian gaming site Io Videogioco has picked up this story, as has Comunita, German gaming sites Play3 and Gamona, Czech gaming site Doupe, GamesIndustry, and Computer and Video Games (CVG). Thanks for all the linkage, folks!
Update Dawn: The story has also found its way onto Reddit.
Lord Blackthorn’s Update: Kotaku and Evil Avatar have picked up and run with the various rumours surrounding this news, though neither of them links to Aiera directly. Still…this story has legs!
Age of Update: Last Game Zone mentions Aiera by name, but doesn’t link. Even so, thanks!
Samurai Update: Finnish gaming site V2 comments on the Kotaku story; Aiera gets a link in the comments.
Mondain’s Update: More visitors!
NCSoft...former employers of Richard Garriott!
THQ...very nice, very nice.
Wait...what? The CIA?
As long as no black helicopters show up near my house, it’s all good.
Updatian Abyss: Blaq, at Ze War, comments a bit about the secret project and how it might just be impacting future developments in his favourite MMO, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.
Update on the High Seas: C&G Monthly talks about the story and apparently links to the site (if traffic logs are to be believed). Italian gaming site Multiplayer.it also sends some link love this way. German site PhantaNews also links, but fans the flames of speculation about a new Ultima MMORPG title. Fragland also sends in a link.
EA’s actions seem quite fair to me… and quite late as well.
What I wish will happen is the official remake of Ultima IV… but not in a way that the Avatar creates an 100000x worse evil to destroy the universe (plus Shadowlords’ and Gargoyles’ issues). The purpose of the Quest of the Avatar should be… at least… something useful.
What EA is doing seems reasonable enough to me. If they are making an Ultima (I’m still hoping for 4, 5 and 6, but I’m an optimist) that is web-based (which I’m guessing it is) then other Flash versions could impact their sales.
It raises my concern levels for my own remake only a little… which can just be used as incentive to get it finished before they move on to Ultima 7 :-p
“That is, sadly, a happy little fiction that the Ultima fandom has invented for itself.”
One point about this. While it is true claiming Ultima IV has been released to the public domain is a “little fiction” (though not solely linked to Ultima fans, and I would argue the public domain thing was brought more by mainstreams sites rather than fans, albeit this as an understantable misunderstanding), I am 99% sure that the whole “Ultima Dragons (as in any Ultima Dragon) can offer the game to download” is not.
Since it has been a long time things are a big fuzzy but this was pretty much said as is by Origin – and I mean not just Boomer. It could have been by Lady MOI, but I’m pretty sure it was mentionned once or twice in Lord British interviews that they basically gave permission to *any* Dragon to distribute the CGW version of the game as a gesture toward fans. As I recall this interview precisely mentionned how some gaming sites tried to offer the game for free as well (such as the kickass debacle you mentioned) but could not because only Ultima Dragons had the permission to. Now finding a trace online of such interviews might be hard since of lot of this stuff has gone even with the web archive – but trust me when I say fans did not made this up.
I wanted to point this because your article kinda make it sound only a few select Dragons got the permission to do it and the rest just took the ball and ran along with it. But it -was- stated as a fact that any Dragons could redistribute the game, and had OSI objected to this, they would most likely have put a stop to it as soon as it begun and the community as it was then would probably have done as asked.
As a matter of fact, the UDIC FAQs on the newsgroup also stated ever since this release (and still to this day ) that Ultima IV was NOT Freeware and EA still hold copyright, and that this was only a special permission for Dragons.
Now of course this does not mean that EA is not within their rights – this was a tacit permission and I’m not sure it would hold much legal ground. And considering permission was given by people in a company that no longer exist and who are no longer part of EA, this might make it void none the less. But permission was given at the time to Ultima Dragons as a whole, even if people at EA now are probably not aware of it.
That being said, I am certainly not pissed by EA’s action since assuming the secret Mythic Projet is indeed some Ultima IV remake as it was rumored last year – it makes perfect sense for them to protect their asset and look more closely as how it is used on the web.
If anything I’d argue this should be taken as good news – because the fact that EA’s legal departement is looking into this is a pretty strong evidence that there IS something brewing at EA that Ultima related. And this is good for us fans.
Also perhaps this might be in order to pave the way for some future release of the series a downloadable DosBoxed games? We can always hope!
I was under the impression that the Ultima Web Archive was the only place EA gave permission, interesting to know there are others.
Sergorn: You raise a valid point, and I suppose one interpretation of the original granting of permission, as articulated by Boomer and confirmed by Fortran Dragon (among others), is that any member of the Ultima Dragons Internet Chapter (UDIC) did in fact receive permission from Origin Systems to host for download a copy of the CD version of Ultima 4.
But I would also submit that there’s basically no way such a release would be even remotely enforceable, and in fact would go the additional length of saying that I don’t even think it’s a particularly reasonable interpretation, since UDIC membership isn’t exactly a hard thing to come by, and involves no vetting of applicants.
The more reasonable interpretation, I think, is that permission to host the download was granted to the UDIC as a entity unto itself, as represented by certain select members thereof. And from what I’ve heard, that’s the interpretation that is being argued for internally, within EA.
At some point, I might try and lobby for Aiera to be included in that listing of approved sites, since I think it would make at least a bit of sense. But really, as long as a) it’s available somewhere and b) nobody actually gets sued over this, I think we can all be happy.
I’m not really sure what to make of all this, other than to make similar guesses that were made here in the post; maybe they want to get a tighter grip on the game due to some upcoming project. However, I’m not entirely sure how the flash version of a tile-based low graphic game from the 90s is going to hurt the sales of a new Ultima title, even if it is an updated remake of the same game. It feels heavy-handed, even though it’s obviously within their rights to act.
Is there something about copyright that I don’t understand in regards to old games like this that makes it worthwhile for them to press the issue?
Would it be sufficient, Gulluoglu, if I said that I wish I could say more right now, but for various reasons cannot…or, at least, should not?
Because that’s the truth of the matter.
The cynic in me says of course they’re going to start beating on this door, with Lords of Ultima and such out there now. But there seems to be a very apologist thread to this post, and honestly I don’t feel like having another argument over it.
All I can say is…see my previous comment.
And Thepal’s comment. Yeah.
Speaking of which…Thepal, you should be okay and in the clear. Mod-type remakes aren’t coming under scrutiny, it seems.
A couple of posts, the least important first.
Based on the previous comment and those referenced by it, it would seem that an Ultima game is being produced for one or more web browsers by its IP holders. I’m guessing it’s Ultima IV simply because Ultima IV is being targeted by said IP holders. Call me stupid, but I’d rather (and do) play the IBM PC port of Ultima IV in DosBox. I guess if my mission was to convert every person Earth into an Ultima IV aficionado I’d be excited and pleased. Part of me still is, strangely, but overall I feel even this is a prequel to something more lucrative by the parties involved.
Peter said, “But there seems to be a very apologist thread to this post, and honestly I don’t feel like having another argument over it.”
Yeah, it disturbs me to see how quickly everyone falls in line with the latest decree from on high.
We can argue about IP, trademark and copyright law all day, ascribing “fairness” to the legality of whatever actions have been taken, but I’d rather talk about what we value as Ultima fans and what the gears of industry have to offer for the gauntlet of torment they run us through.
First I suggest any new Ultima game will not be designed with us primarily in mind. They will take us into consideration as to not alienate their fan base, but any new Ultima game will be designed to appeal to a much wider audience, and there will be sacrifices.
This won’t be some indie game with a dev team full of pure-hearted fans who live and die by the Eight Virtues. These people are nine-to-fivers (don’t tell me about the idiotic burnout at the end of the dev cycle and sleeping in cubicles, that’s missing the point) who have full benefits, paid vacations and know the ropes of office politics and corporate advancement. They have a job to do, they have supervisors, their supers have managers, and their managers have executives; it’s a hierarchy based on meeting deadlines, budgets, and pushing units delivered at any cost.
There will be a multi-faceted marketing campaign to put the game in the best light, obscuring the gameplay in order to attract fans of other, loosely-similar titles (Dragon Age, TES, etc.). Whether or not the “essence” of Ultima, as if even we fans could define it, will be preserved is all the hope and excitement of the unknown and unknowable.
We may thrill at the notion of the word “Ultima” being intoned in a commanding voice on commercial television, but is that really what we want? Were not the first nine and our own efforts enough? Do we really need an “AAA” title chasing the ghost of our favorite game and possibly blaspheming it further?
I never thought I’d say this, but I hope there is never another Ultima unless Lord British codes it by his own hand. There’s only so much the horse can be beaten before you’re just making a mess. Our efforts here are what count. Richard Garriott and all that’s left of his creative genius are what count. I think they’re the -only- things that count anymore. IP is, in the end, nothing but a name.
I couldn’t agree more, Sanctimonia.
I find nothing wrong with anything you write, Sanctimonia, especially considering the last game from the IP was Lords of Ultima.
Alas, I guess some part of me (and likely the reason I continue to visit this site) wants Ultima to be a phoenix rising from the ashes and not the fossilizing remains of the last dodo.
I don’t feel so alone, that’s good. Let’s settle in to a good campfire while we rest for the morrow. Strum the lute, let the mead flow, and keep an eye out for our enemies!
I posted a symlink that hopefully works:
http://www.eightvirtues.com/music/Favorites/
Send any good songs and I’ll put them in there for future campfire ditties.
I just wanted to add a little note along the lines of what Sanctimonia said. Personally I can’t understand the excitement at the possibility of a new Ultima title, for two main reasons. First, what is an Ultima without Lord British (as in, they can’t even include him in the game any more). Second, it isn’t going to be an Ultima at all. Just look at Lord of Ultima. It’s not like, after all these years, the developers at EA can do any job better than their counterparts did with Utlima 9 in the late 90s. They just don’t know what it means. I’m not talking about warm-hearted fandom here; I bet many of those developers never even played Ultima.
You know I find very ironic to see people basically clamouring for a return of Richard Garriott. Why ? Because you can’t imagine how many fans over the last decaded I have seen begging for the opposite and wishing Garriott will never touch a Ultima again after U8, U9 and UO.
That being said: I see no reason why an Ultima could not work without Garriott at the helm. For starters: this happened before back at the OSI days (Ultima Underworld II anyone?) and we also have clear exemple through fan projects that Richard Garriott is not a “must have” to make a quality game.
Of course I know what answer I will be getting: “Yeah but these are made by FANS.”
Guess what? Paul Barnett IS a huge Ultima fan and this is most likely the reason this not so secret project even exists. I know this seems hard to grasp to some people and there are probably some who are going “Yeah right…” when reading stuff like that.
But how is that even surprising?
Ultima is and remains to this day one of the most influencial RPG series of all time. It’s been quoted as being an influence from pretty any major RPG developpers existing today: Bioware, Obsidian (and Black Isle before), Pyrannha Bytes, Bethesda… A lot of RPG developpers were RPG fans to begin with, which means a lost of them played the classic of the genre… which a lot of them grew up on Ultima just like us and were probably fan of it back in the day.
Eck, if Feargus Uruquart can come and say his dream project is to create an Ultima – I can certainly believe Paul Barnett to be an Ultima fan, cos’ quite simply : he’s in the right age brackett to be a Ultima fan.
And if people like Tiberius, Corv or myself can claim some legitimacy in creating Ultima mods on account that we are fans – I see no reason while someone like Barnett could not. The only difference is that he is in the position of making an official game with the Ultima IP.
Personally I don’t want Ultima to remain buried. There is a lot that could still be done with the IP and the Ultima universe, and I see no reason why a quality Ultima title couldn’t be created even without Richard Garriott.
Now granted, Lord of Ultima was a shameless use of the IP (albeit on a good game) – but everything we’ve heard on this point to a vastly different beast altogether.
Another point:
“First I suggest any new Ultima game will not be designed with us primarily in mind. They will take us into consideration as to not alienate their fan base, but any new Ultima game will be designed to appeal to a much wider audience, and there will be sacrifices.”
But this has always been the case. Ultima has never pampered to fans only and always aimed to bring a wider audience with each game. There’s no reason why a new Ultima should do any different. An Ultima made solely for fans would fail… and I’m sure I’ll get some comment about it’s more important to create a true Ultima game rather than something to make money but you know: Ultima was also about bringing money to Origin
So I have no idea if that Mythic project will any good – but I’m certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and play it before accusing the big evil corporation of raping Ultima’s dead corpse.
And I’m cautiously optimistic taht this is gonna be a nice “In Mani Corp” rather that some tasteless rape of the IP.
Personally, as a long-term Ultima fan, I am saddened to see the loss of the flash-based remakes of Ultima IV, just how I’m saddened to see any loss to the community. Even though I may disagree with EA’s stance on this, it is certainly well within their legal right to quash any project that infringes on their copyright to such a degree. If this is indeed related to an upcoming remake of Ultima IV, I hope EA has the decency to limit their legal attacks to merely products they felt were in direct competition to their upcoming game, and don’t feel the need to come down on other fan projects. That’d be a crushing blow to an active community.
On the other hand, I am excited by the prospect of seeing new officially sanctioned Ultima games, and I’m absolutely willing to keep an open mind to any new Ultima-related projects that may be on the pipeline.
Also, what’s the status on offering Ultima games for download or though some kind of service like GoG.com? I would still love to see these games available for download along with high-quality scans of the original maps, guidebooks, and ideally even hintbooks (Man, Origin made awesome hintbooks). Hell, I’d even give them my collection of hintbooks and manuals for scanning if it’d mean that’d happen.
I personally wecome *any* Ultima game–new, fan based, whatever. Although there is something magical to me to hear that EA is continuing the IP. I feel we should all give them a chance, and give as much support as we can. While Lord of Ultima was an ‘in-name-only’ Ultima, it’s a good game, and I’ve spent many hours in anguish over my castles being seiged.
Paul Barnett is passionate about Ultima, and desires nothing more than to bring that passion back to the long-term-fans, and anyone else that may want to jump aboard–the more the merrier!
The “Dr. Ray” that Paul mentions is Dr. Ray Muzyka, CEO of Bioware, and the manager of RPGs/MMOs at EA. Putting together the puzzle pieces, it seems as tho Paul has worked very hard to get approval from Dr. Ray for this project (projects?), which only shows his passion for the Ultima IP.
So the big question is ‘will the game be good, or will it stink?’
I personally have an optimistic view–of course I hope it’s great, but it doesn’t really matter. The simple fact that EA is putting energy into it means that the memory of Ultima lives on in more than just the hearts of fans–and we’ll all get to see more adventures in Britannia!
As for R.G. being involved, I don’t think that matters either. As someone earlier stated correctly, the Underworlds were produced completely outside of Garriot’s influence, and both of them were great. And with his last announcement, Garriott is bringing us even more worlds to explore and discover, so it’s a win-win!
I don’t like to see remakes disappearing, but copyright violations are what they are, inadvertent or not. I take some comfort in the fact that there seems to have just been this one round of DMCA notifications, and I remind myself that as much as I hate to see a good remake (and Blair’s Flash-based Ultima 4 remake was damn good) get shuttered, this is still Electronic Arts we are dealing with, rather than Activision or Ubisoft. I think we would all do well to remember that, because the difference is key to the existence of this site and the remake community in general. Because whereas EA only acts against obvious copyright violations, Ubisoft (to a greater degree) and Activision (to a lesser but still significant degree) tend to take legal action against almost any fan project that comes along.
Lazarus wouldn’t have happened under Ubisoft or Activision. Forgotten World would be toast. Even Exult would probably have been shut down. But not under EA. And if saying so makes me something of an EA apologist, well…I suppose I can live with that label, for now. I have a bit better idea, and know more than I can say, about what is in store. I have some confidence in what I know is coming. I have some excitement for it. At some point soon, I hope I get a green light to share more about it, because — dammit — I would love to. But for now, well…call me an apologist, I guess.
Anyhow, there’s been some interesting commentary here, but it was ultimately something by Sanctimonia that I wanted most to respond to…first, at least.
I think this romanticizes the indie developer just a bit too much. Not that indie devs can’t crank out some incredible stuff; I love me some Torchlight, after all. But it’s worth noting that Origin Systems, especially after the EA buyout, probably fit into the “nine-to-fivers” category more than the “pure-hearted indie developer” category…and they still managed to crank out Serpent Isle. And Wing Commander 3, for that matter. And really, even before the EA acquisition, I would argue that Origin had grown beyond its indie roots; it had the management, it had the supervisors, it had the hierarchy, it had the benefits and the vacations and the office politics and the trappings of corporation.
And it still cranked out Ultima 6. And Wing Commander 2. And Privateer. And Savage Empire.
Sergorn and Origin Museum have both articulated rather well the point that Ultima doesn’t strictly require Garriott’s involvement. Garriott is not Ultima; he has moved on from it. Ultima is not Garriott, and in fact the original version of the final Ultima title (Ultima 9, just to be clear) would have left the Ultima universe not only without an Avatar, but without a Lord British, and without a Britannia. And yet plans were still being drawn up for a tenth Ultima game, and Garriott was giving interviews talking up the probability that he could keep the series going almost in perpetuity.
Developers who are punching the clock can — and perhaps will — produce a very different kind of game than indie developers, it’s true. But does it necessarily follow that clock-punching corporate developers will only ever turn out crap? The evidence suggests otherwise, and then quite loudly.
Oh…Dungy asked one interesting thing:
There was something in the works, and I hope to have more information about it soon. I’m not sure we’d see a release on GoG, but there were plans being made to release the original games digitally by some means. Feel free to search the news archives here for what reporting I was able to offer on the matter. (Hint: it involved DOSbox.)
You never understand how much a developer puts into a game, story, artwork, and how much it becomes them, and they it, until you’ve been involved in that kind of project.
The loss to the community here is immense. I don’t think it’s terribly excusable either. Obviously others disagree with me.
Personally, I am very leery now, of continuing work on TFL, if it can just get shut down in a heartbeat anyways. I resent EA doing this, immensely. With SquareEnix, or Ubisoft, they at least have the decency to be very up front in their stance. This comes off as a reversal and a very questionable thing.
Anyone who thinks EA is doing this for anything other than the money is either being niave or willfully blind, I think.
Don’t presume I don’t understand; there’s been a lot I’ve had to walk away from, passion projects included. More than you will ever know or hear from me directly.
And don’t think I don’t understand that this is a big loss to the community. Any time a project closes down, for any reason, it’s a loss. I get that. Why do you think I even bother to maintain an Orphanage and a Cemetery, rather than simply un-publishing dead projects?
As to whether it’s excusable what EA is doing…why isn’t it? At the end of the day, they are the legal copyright holders of the Ultima franchise and all titles and properties encompassed thereby, with only a few notable exceptions. They have every right to enforce copyright and request that projects — even painstakingly developed labours of love — which violate that copyright be removed from distribution.
At the same time, there’s been no real reversal here on EA’s part; there’s just been no action prior to now. Huge difference. The copyright was always theirs; these actions would have been as justified a decade ago as they are now. It was ultimately Ultima fans — myself included — who erred and assumed that EA/Origin had given away more than they actually had. And believe me, I have no idea how that happened, given how clear the limits on the release of Ultima 4 actually are once you read up on how they were granted in the first place.
Those Flash remakes, awesome as they were, were in violation of copyright the second they went live. I didn’t think it at the time that I reported on them, because I mistakenly thought that Ultima 4 was out there as freeware, fair game for almost anything. That was an incorrect understanding, as I have now learned and tried to explain. EA could easily have shuttered them on the same day that they hit the Internet. Ubisoft would have. Activision would have. The fact that EA hasn’t bothered to until now is curious, to say the least, and all I can say about it (multiple meanings, there) is that it points to something else “being up” regarding Ultima in general and, probably, Ultima 4 specifically.
EA’s stance isn’t as confrontational or up front, maybe, as the stances taken by other major publishers…but it’s precisely because EA is a bit lackadaisical in their approach that this remake community has been able to a) exist and b) thrive. And here’s the kicker: almost all of the remake projects have nothing to worry about where EA is concerned. The Feudal Lands is fine. Exult is fine. Lazarus is fine. Redemption is fine. Ultima Return is fine. xu4 is fine. Classic Ultima Online is at risk, but there are people on the inside at EA lobbying hard in its favour. That last point is important: we have allies on the inside at EA. Really, we do. And not just cube-dwelling code grunts, at that.
And as Sergorn pointed out, there are a lot of Ultima fans inside of EA, especially at Mythic. Paul Barnett…you should hear the man speak about Ultima 4; you would think no better game had ever been coded in all of history. And, well, maybe that’s true, by some measures at least. But the point is: this is a guy who gets it. He’s put together a team that gets it. They’re as furious about the misuse of the Ultima label that was Lords of Ultima as any of us is. They want to do something with the series and the Ultima name besides keeping Ultima Online ticking along.
One last note: The “EA is just doing this for the money” argument has come up a couple times now, and I suppose it’s valid as a statement of raw fact: EA as a company is obviously interested in turning a profit rather than not doing so. Every company is. But equally: so what? That’s the nature of business: you make money, or you aren’t going to stay in business. It’s not exactly a sinister thing.
By the way, and for what it’s worth, I suggested to Blair Leggett that he might consider porting his Flash-based version of Ultima 4 to iOS, since I gather there are ways to do this.
I think the issue about the Flash based U4 is that in the end it is basically a 1:1 remake still using assets (and in all likelyhood data files) from the original game – so from a legal standpoint this is problematic.
Things like Exult or xU4 are fair games, because while they use the original game assets – they require the player to own a copy of the game to engine, just like all engine recreations. So they don’t distribute anything belonging to IP Holders. Ditto for game modifications like Forgotten Worlds. You still need Ultima IX for this.
But for what is basically a port, I can see the issue. When the game was mistakingly and widely believed to be Freeware it is understandable for such a project to exist… but since it is not, it becomes an issue. Perhaps some agreement could be reached down the road with EA, but at this point I understand why the game had to be taken down.
On a side note, regarding the Master System 8 version… this one never had any ground to exist whatsoever since the permission given to the Dragons (I stand with my assesment this was repeated by “higher sources” at OSI and not just by Boomer, though obviously unless we can find this online this will not help with any dealing with EA
) refered to the PC version of Ultima IV only, and specifically to the CGW version and none other (ie: you couldn’t just zip your installed game folder from your U4 disks and host it). So this Master System version had not base for existing online in a playable form in any case.
As a matter of fact: the whole Master System 8 site (and the other versions of the site related to other consoles) hardly seems legit to me. They probably get away with this by not hosting any rom themselves, but they are basically offering emulation of commercial games – and we all know this is not techincally legal. This is very much like the SNES Ultima VI playable in a browser that was reported a while back here: It’s nice – but it’s definitly not legal.
Regarding the fact that EA could basically swing the Copyright Hammer anytime they want well… what did you expect? We might not like it, but it is fair game. We don’t own Ultima… so should EA decide to bring a stop to such projects it is within their right to do so. Of course should they strike down “Ultima: Return” (and such thing will hopefully not happen), I’d be crushed and pissed. But I’m realistic: when I began work on Return, I’ve known from the start that there was always the possibility (as slight as it seemed after Lazarus’ release) that someday I might just get a cease&desist and have to stop all work on it. I’d wish there wasn’t this sword of damocles above our heads – but whenever working on some form of fan project based on a existing IP, it is something one has to accept and live with.
Or else you don’t work on an existing IP and create your own world and setting. It’s as simple as that.
Well said WTF–Well said Sergorn.
I respect your thoughts on this Mr. Dodge, but I have a differing view. While not having these U4 versions is a loss to the community, I don’t resent EA because of this. Perhaps I’m just older, but I still don’t get this concept that some folks have that any digital data is free for the taking. Copyright and Intellectual Property are both still valid concepts in the world. The fact that some believe that this system needs to be overhauled doesn’t justify plagerism. If EA were to get technical about it, they could justifyably say that these fan games stole art assets, music assets, IP, and violated copyright. Then they could sue–and win hands-down…But they don’t. They just send a letter saying ‘please stop distributing our property’. And it’s magnanimous of them to turn a blind eye to the other Ultima-related projects.
As for money, uhm..yes, they’re trying to make money. They want to make a crapload of money! and they want to stop anyone who uses their property illegally to continue to make money.
But who ever said that ‘making money’ was a dirty word?
Profit drives the game industry. We get great entertainment because of it. Even most indie developers (including the folks who made Exult, Lazarus, and Return) are doing this not only for love, but in the hopes that they learn from the experience, and perhaps get noticed by some people in the industry–they want jobs…and if they get those jobs and make money, that doesn’t mean that they’re evil. They just want to make games for a living…just like the folks at EA.
“As to whether it’s excusable what EA is doing…why isn’t it? At the end of the day, they are the legal copyright holders of the Ultima franchise and all titles and properties encompassed thereby, with only a few notable exceptions. They have every right to enforce copyright and request that projects — even painstakingly developed labours of love — which violate that copyright be removed from distribution.”
There’s a big distinction between having a right to do something, and something being the ethical thing to do.
Perhaps I’m just older, but I still don’t get this concept that some folks have that any digital data is free for the taking.
That’s because, for the most part, it is. Look at the Internet. It’s basically a huge network that distributes countless terabytes of data to you, for free.
It’s that dissonance, the sheer discontinuity between the everyday, pervasive “free-ness” of the Internet and the continued non-free-ness of copyrighted software, that drives the attitude you describe.
I’m not taking a side here, just giving my opinion of why that attitude exists.
“There’s a big distinction between having a right to do something, and something being the ethical thing to do.”
And what side of that distinction does it fall on if you take somebody else’s work, muck around with it a little bit and then distribute it worldwide, without their permission, for free?
I’m not saying it’s nice that these projects have been shut down – I think it’s a real shame as I’m sure a tremendous amount of love and effort has been put into them. And as has been discussed above, because of the confusion around U4′s status, they probably weren’t aware that what they were doing was a copyright infringement – but the fact remains that it was and EA, presumably because of upcoming projects, have decided now is the time that they want to enforce their rights. Personally I think a C&D notice is a heck of a lot more ethical than taking more serious legal action against an individual.
I know we’d love to have some big David and Goliath style story here, but I just don’t think it’s like that.
I didn’t realize til reading this thread that Britannia is now the leading consumer of Kool-Aid. I wonder if the same arguments would be made should EA start enforcing their trademark rights more even-handedly. The “Ultima” name itself is trademarked, meaning most remakes would be in violation. Any Ultima-related web site domain names containing the word “Ultima” would have to be changed or taken down by DMCA. Canonical enforces their trademark rights for “Ubuntu” in just this way. I can only guess what else Ultima-related is trademarked. Britannia, The Avatar, who knows…
Of course, that would all be just fine since it’s perfectly within their rights to do so. Or maybe it’s okay just to cut a person but not outright dismember them, as has been suggested in this thread.
One solution other than cowering under EA’s legal lash would be to stop using the name “Ultima” and use replacement tile sets. Take the game data files and put them in an entirely different format, like XML. There’s only so much they can screw with us about, and most of it could easily be made compliant.
I don’t quite see the need to make so much of a stink about it. The ‘udic members are allowed to offer u4 for download’ rule always seemed a bit shady to me. Probably made by someone at Origin while packing his/her things. It’s the reason why neither Kirben (xu4 windows snapshots maintainer) nor me (new os x snapshots maintainer) included u4 in the snapshots even though we are both dragons.
And why now? Probably exactly as pointed out, the IP gets another use and thus a company anews its hold on it. Making a moral thing about this is to me like denying a dog to piss at trees…
And also seems strange to label EA evil for years for destroying Origin and other game makers and be surprised that they suddenly act evil (though I don’t think it is evil now).
It’s also a bit naive to NOW think about the possibility of EA to shut down fan projects. Really, where have you lived before? Game companies have done exactly that for years. That EA didn’t act before (and they don’t seem to act now either, except for the blatant copyright violations of the flash u4) didn’t mean they couldn’t do so every second. Peroxid certainly was aware of this and Lazarus was also at some point (I remember that they discussed early on to force users to point to the original game before you could play to prevent some sort of piracy claim).
“Take the game data files and put them in an entirely different format, like XML”
How does this not violate copyright? Just because you store it differently doesn’t make it less of a copyright violation.
Nyeh, this whole thing leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, perhaps because I remember this is exactly the way things started going down when they started smashing Dragonlance fan works.
And, I suppose, the directly biased angle that it pretty much directly threatens TFL.
@Sanctimonia:
Of course, that would all be just fine since it’s perfectly within their rights to do so. Or maybe it’s okay just to cut a person but not outright dismember them, as has been suggested in this thread.
Any move like this is bad for the community in many ways. It robs the community of good fan works. It divides the community along the lines of apologists and .. well, honestly, I can’t help but think the flipside of apologists is “sane, rational human beings”. The big companies don’t care if you support them and they certainly don’t care about what you believe, unless it starts affecting the purchasing decisions of large segments of the population.
Given the latest example of Lords of Ultima, I think its a stretch to think these community projects are worthwhile “sacrifice” for a new Ultima.
@Dominus:
How does this not violate copyright? Just because you store it differently doesn’t make it less of a copyright violation.
Most Ultima games use proprietary file formats to store data, cmon man, you should know this between USECODE and Flex files.
So was this about the file format or the content? I’m not sure the file format is or can be copyrighted, the content surely is. If you rip the content of the usecode to some other file format, the content still remains under copyright.
So the question remains how you will circumvent copyright by packaging it differently?
And before worrying too much about the fan projects, just wait and see. For now EA went after the obvious copyright violations.
The problem is that all fan works are obvious copyright violations. Theyre derivative works.
I don’t buy the slippery slope arguments in this case. The continued existence of U5:L and U6P is proof that EA aren’t Nazis about copyright.
Maybe monarchists or authoritarians, but not Nazis.
“I wonder if the same arguments would be made should EA start enforcing their trademark rights more even-handedly. The “Ultima” name itself is trademarked, meaning most remakes would be in violation.”
As I said above, yup I’d still make the same argument. I would not like it obviously… but whether I would like it or not is beside the point. In the end they are entitled to do what they want with their IP and the rights that come with it.
“It’s also a bit naive to NOW think about the possibility of EA to shut down fan projects. Really, where have you lived before? Game companies have done exactly that for years. That EA didn’t act before (and they don’t seem to act now either, except for the blatant copyright violations of the flash u4) didn’t mean they couldn’t do so every second. Peroxid certainly was aware of this and Lazarus was also at some point.”
Yup. The fact that EA could basically come and shut down the project anytime if they so wished is one of the main reason Peroxide decided to stop their work on Ultima I once it became clear EA could not give them an official permission (in spite of the fact that Garriott did sanction it when he was still at OSI). This was also a major concern for Lazarus while it was being made. These concerns have obviously lessened with the release of Lazarus and U6P… but it’s always the risk when working on an existing property. As I said, it’s a risk one need to accept when working on a fan project.
And the fact remains that EA has remained extremely open to community games and module over the years (and not just about Ultima, just look about the quantity of Wing Commander mods and fangames that have been created), and we should be thankful for it.
All that EA has done now, is requesting that Ultima IV stopped to be distributed freely everywhere. Which is understandable. And unfortunately, Ultima IV For Flash being what it is – it was basically a freely distributed version of the game even if played online in a browser.
“It divides the community along the lines of apologists and .. well, honestly, I can’t help but think the flipside of apologists is “sane, rational human beings”.”
Yeah well… personally I would tend to think on the contrary that the so-called apologist are the “sane rational” ones while the other side tends to fall into the mindless bashing of the “Big Evil Corporation(TM)” category which can get silly and not very rational IMO.
I understand there is a lot of bitterness against EA from Ultima fans because of the issues U8 and U9 suffered (though IMO people tend to diminish the role of Origin in this), but this was over a decade ago, a lot of people who were at EA then aren’t there anymore, and the “people who count” in term of Ultima now weren’t at EA then either. I certainly did my share of complaining against EA back in the day and I certainly don’t like how Origin ended… but there is a point where it’s time to let go of the past, mature and look at things rationally rather that through our fan’s eyes – which as fans will be biased one way or another.
As for dividing the community frankly – I’ve never known the Ultima fan community as one solid semented whole. Perhaps it was once, but it was obviously fractured by Ultima VIII, the gap further wedged by Ultima Online and Ultima IX pretty much fracturing it once and for all.
I’ve always been somewhat sadded by this state of things actually, especially when looking at how whole the WC community always seemed in comparison to the Ultima one.
“I don’t buy the slippery slope arguments in this case. The continued existence of U5:L and U6P is proof that EA aren’t Nazis about copyright.”
Yup. That and the Wing Commander projects too. They’ve actually been very supportive in term of letting the WC CIC release stuff for Wing Commander, such as vids from the cancelled DVD versions of Prophecy.
Infinitron & Wizardry: You don’t even need to look as far ahead as Lazarus. There are two remakes of Ultima 4 built with Neverwinter Nights; both are still available on the NWVault.
You can be certain that if EA was going after remakes as copyright violations, IGN would have gotten a DMCA warning, and so would have pulled both projects down. That they haven’t speaks volumes about how very limited EA’s crackdown on copyright violations really is.
While not strictly relevant to the Ultima IV / EA discussion… I think the following link is a good read for any Ultima fan and confirmation that the makers of The Elder Scrolls games were / are Ultima fans (in this case Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim game director Todd Howard). This is the guy I would want making the next Ultima game (if there was one, and if Bethesda owned the IP; which they don’t)
http://www.oxm.co.uk/26165/interviews/exclusive-inside-the-elder-scrolls/
“The problem is that all fan works are obvious copyright violations. Theyre derivative works.”
Yes, sure. That much is given anyway and no one disputes this, if they want they can shut stuff down. But this does not concern what I was asking Sanctimonia about.
Anyway if you live in fear you better stop TFL right away, no use worrying any further.
I just hope others are more rational and start to accuse and worry when EA actually does shut down fan projects that are not blatantly, directly breaking copyrights.
–Sergorn said:
>>Yup. That and the Wing Commander projects too. They’ve actually been very supportive in term of letting the WC CIC release stuff for Wing Commander, such as vids from the cancelled DVD versions of Prophecy.<<
Very true, but I think that EA has a trust-relationship with the WCNews guys. They've been communicating with EA for almost 15 years, and have always been upfront and honest with what they post. EA allows the WCNews guys leeway (in my opinion) because they respect copyright. I know for a fact that they have source code–games that were never released. But they'd *never* post it, simply because EA wouldn't like it, and it's just plain wrong. Sure, they post screenshots, movies, music, etc., etc., and they sponsor fan projects, but they almost always get EA permission with anything that seems like it's walking the line. I think that EA trusts them because they do the right thing–and EA doesn't trust new folks who simply copy one of their games in it's entirety in another format, and then get all cranky if EA asks them to take it off the internet.
@DOMINUS
Yeah, doing a clone of a game is a little tricky. Probably something lawyers would have to joust over in court. I’ve heard of Tetris clones being sued, and others being left alone, even though the only similarity was the gameplay. Software patents (as opposed to trademark and copyright) are a real bitch and need serious reform, but I don’t think they’ve too often (if ever) been granted for gameplay mechanics.
As far as data files go, would copying a tile-based map (the layout, not the textures) or an NPC schedule, but using a completely different file format, be a copyright violation? What about using a scanned cloth map of Britannia as a basis for a procedurally-generated map (as my project does)? If I drew a map by hand that resembled Britannia, actually called it Britannia, and released it in a commercial product would I be taken to court?
I don’t know the answers to any of those questions, but somewhere there exists friendly territory, no man’s land, and getting sued. I wonder in court if they’d just look at the two games side by side, ignore the fact that they use completely different artwork, source code, sound effect and music, and say, “Uh, yeah, they are obviously the same. Decision for the plaintiff.” Are there any precedents for this?
It’s clear that everyone here is pretty set in their opinions about the takedowns, so I’m done arguing all that mess, but the idea of a legal clone versus a legal infringement is an interesting point that probably deserves further discussion.
I’m pretty sure that the map layout and calling it Britannia would do you in. Copying NPC schedules not necessarily but copying a lot and using them on a very similar map, calling the NPCs the same name and so on would do you in again.
It’s not that this *would* take you to court, it’s that EA *could* take you to court. In a commercial product they surely would do so, in a fan project, if they were to attack fan projects, they probably would send you a cease and desist. If you then take this to court you should be very sure of the outcome AND have enough money to battle EA.
Wizardry: This is building off of Dominus’ comment of 2011/03/27 at 2:28 PM (site time).
As others have noted, EA could start swinging the DMCAhammer anytime they want to, and could probably take most or all of the remake projects down with it. If they decided to do a full-on Ubisoft approach, not even fan-made patches would survive, nor would this site.
We have two approaches we can take to that: keep working on what we’re working on, mindful of obvious copyright violations, or stop work for fear that we might be the next ones to get a “cease and desist” notification, and thereby have to abandon a labour of love.
But here’s the kicker. I know for a fact that you a) live in Canada and b) chose to get married. Because of (a), you took a risk — a very big risk — in undertaking (b), because Canada recognizes the legal concept of “no-fault divorce”. Your wife could, tomorrow, make your life a living hell simply by filing for divorce and then filing a false abuse claim against you, the former of which a court will be only too happy to grant and the latter of which will pretty much be taken at face value by that same court in determining who gets what in the aftermath of the split.
(Note: I’m not saying that your wife WOULD do this FOR SURE; I don’t know her from Eve. I’m simply noting that if ever she chose to, the legal apparatus exists which enables her to do so.)
My point is that you undertook a venture (marriage) to which is attached a significant risk (no-fault divorce) backed by a permissive legal system (Canadian law) . Your other venture (The Feudal Lands) also has a level of risk associated with it (copyright violation) backed by a permissive legal system (copyright law, DMCA). Yet you’re not fretting about how your wife, with the help of the Canadian courts, could bring your marital life crashing down around your ankles tomorrow morning…even though she could if she wanted to. You don’t live in fear of that occurrence, even though it would be substantially more financially damaging to you than a cease and desist order could ever possibly be (provided you opted to abide by it rather than flout it).
So: why all the fear?
Yes Sanct–this would be a great area for discussion. But unless we’ve got a practicing lawyer on the forums, everything we talk about in this regard is pure conjecture. Even a true lawyer would not be right on many of these issues, due to the fact that many of these topics have not really had prcedence set in the court system of the US (and probably not many other countries either). The jury could go either way on a lot of these–rules and laws, or no rules and laws! Take much of what I say with a grain (or five) of salt–I admit I ‘talk out of my butt’ a lot on this subject, and so do a lot of other folks.
To that end, I would agree with the opinions of Dominus–While a game company has the right to protect copyright and IP, I think it comes down to ‘how much damage’, ‘how much money’, and ‘how much plagerism’ we’re talking about. General concepts of game design, such as NPC scheduling, would probably not be pursuable–but creating an RPG with the exact same map, and naming it Britannia would probably piss somebody off–especially if you were to market the game as Ultima. The only reason anyone would do that would be to get already existing Ultima fans to buy it. If I invent a car, and use the general body style of a Mustang, and then call it ‘The new Joe Mustang’, I’m sure that Ford would sue, even if my engine design ran on fruit punch!
Im sure this exact topic has been talked about by the suits at EA for years–and I suspect that their lawyers never have defined the line between ‘free promotion’ and ‘copyright/IP infringement’. It’s all such a subjective thing.
I can speak to a few of Sanctimonia’s questions, since I actually wound up discussing them with someone at EA directly.
Copying the layout of assets and applying it to new, self-made assets with the intent of creating a new representation of the same environment using one’s own art is actually considered a copyright violation. It’d be like tracing out the lines of a picture of Garfield, colouring him green instead of orange (and with crayon instead of ink) and then claiming it as your own work.
I’m less sure about schedules, but I would assume that if you’re moving NPCs on the same cyclical patterns on the same layout of map locations, then yes, that would be considered a violation as well.
This one is an even tougher call. What degree of similarity is there to which particular map of Britannia (since Origin shifted the shape of Britannia between games)? Are you calling it Britannia? Are the cities on it located in approximately the same locations as one would expect to find in an Ultima game? Are the cities of the same name?
My gut feeling is that you’d probably get a pass as long as the procedural generation added some variance to things and you avoided using the original names of towns and landmarks. But again, that’s just my feeling, and if you like I can ask some people at EA just where the line would be between “yeah, okay” and “hey, stop that!”
(For what it’s worth: This is off-topic, but kind of relevant even so. I’ve been doing copyright searches, and I cannot find a copyright registration for “Sosaria” anywhere. I may be wrong in that, and I’ll probably ask EA about it at some point; please don’t consider anything I say to be sound legal advice! Still, it’s…a possibility.)
I will grant that software patent reform is needed, but I’ll also note Origin Museum’s point that even though this is true, we are still supposed to operate within the confines of extant laws until such time as changes happen. As to game clones…I’m dubious as to whether those will ever be completely legal. I mean, it’s one thing to produce a game that is very obviously inspired by another game (see almost anything Gameloft has produced for iOS, for example), and quite another to produce a game that uses new art assets but arranges then in exactly the same way as the art assets being replaced, uses new scripting which achieves exactly the same effects in-game that the old scripting achieved, and uses new music which both closely approximates and is obviously inspired by the music it is replacing.
The former is a bit dubious as-is; Starcraft and Starfront: Collision are really quite eerily similar games, though just different enough to be, well, different games. The latter is, to me at least, pretty obviously a violation. I mean, if tomorrow I painted something which looked exactly like the Mona Lisa, but using acrylic paints on a paper medium, could I really claim that I’m on safe legal footing and not anything more than a copycat trying to find any little excuse he can to justify his aping of a classic work?
I’m glad this has been spelled out. I’ve often wondered how “free” Ultima IV actually was, and thought it was a questionably assertion. I’m pleased to learn that it really is freely available, in a specific way. I’m also pleased to be justified in refusing to host a copy of Ultima V related to my own project. (Which is sorely in need of an update…)
EA is not just within their rights, they are required to defend their IP where they see it violated, lest it get so out of control that it is defacto no longer under their control.
I don’t find this post a wet blanked at all; on the contrary, it bodes positive that Ultima IV is freely available to anybody who can run a DOS emulator, and that potentially EA is working on a classic Ultima-related project. Even if it doesn’t meet our hopes and dreams for a revived Ultima, nothing can destroy the Origin masterpieces of yore.
The map for Sanctimonia is a hybrid of the cloth map and tile map from Ultima V. I overlaid them at 50% opacity and traced a hybrid contour at high resolution. I then set different shades for different elevation levels to represent various oceanic depths, the rivers and lakes and the mountain ranges. That image is then used as “seed” values of varying frequency which are fed to the diamond square algorithm in Littoral that generates the terrain elevation. The result is a more realistic looking Britannia at a much higher resolution.
As far as names go, not much in Sanctimonia will have a name other than what the players informally give it. It’s unsettled land save one port city at Brittany Bay. The old cities will be overgrown ruins and some will be entirely gone. None of the names from Ultima will be used. Even the players won’t have names displayable to other players, as they’ll only be recognizable by their unique portraits.
So while yes, the map obviously looks like Britannia, I’m not directly copying assets from any of the games. The first step in the multi-step procedure for generating the terrain does indirectly copy game assets. I’m also not going to be marketing it as an Ultima game, though the underlying game mechanics are inspired by IV – VII, among other games.
If I get sued it’ll be for using a map that looks like Britannia, but there’s nothing else I can get nailed for. Hopefully EA won’t pull the Trip Hawkins act of, “So I sue you, ’cause that’s what I do,” like they did with Origin back in the day.
Sanctimonia: You may also want to consider adding additional obfuscation and variance to your mapping, given that your project will be a commercial venture. EA is probably going to prove to be a lot less willing to let similarities slide if you plan on making money off of them.
Agreed, although I think “making money off of them” is a stretch. That would imply that people who wouldn’t otherwise subscribe would subscribe simply because the map resembled Britannia. While that may be the case for some, it would be such a small number that my financial gain wouldn’t cover the cost of driving to the courtroom.
I could use a map of Italy if I wanted to and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference. Likewise I could make something up completely, probably a lot cooler than Britannia. I’m using Britannia because I like it and have a nostalgic attachment to it, not because it gives me some advantage, as if there’s something inherently amazing about that particular map.
I think I might ask EA directly, or perhaps an IP attorney, if it is possible to copyright fictional geography.